Oops, see above… you are given medication to end your life. Oregon reports that most people never use the pill. It’s the ability to feel in control of your life.
I think that balancing the choice, and given the choice, many of us choose life. The people who leap off the bridge and seconds later realize SHIT, those who are fortunate enough to survive the fall have a very different view about ending things.
Fire away, Chaos. I thought of you when I wrote this. We are all of us in process, and transformation by fire sucks the big one. But by god we can do this.
I'm "still collating." (See ALIEN.) I haven't forgotten you--I think as an autistic person (and someone who has lost someone I adored to suicide and has attempted suicide MANY times) it will take me longer to process my thoughts/feelings. (And, I feel so very much about this brave piece.) This is such an important topic that I don't want to half-ass it--it deserves my respect and full attention. And, (this is something I am working on) despite my pull-no-punches style on my SS page, I want to approach this incredibly sensitive topic respectfully--and, I fear that what I have to say will be attacked. So, kid gloves, as they say.
I’ve always had a “you get to decide for yourself as it’s your life” type of mindset, this gave me so much to consider. I love a piece that challenges my beliefs…especially since I feel like I may be embarking on the best period of my life. I wouldn’t have believed that a year ago. Go Julia!!!
Thanks Gary. I did read it. I strongly recommend reading "AFTER," a book about fifty years of research of near death experiences. I found it deeply moving and hopeful.
I am so with you on this. I’m almost 70 but that’s young for the women in my family. My Mom who lives with me is 90 and my Granny lived an active life to 96. My other Grandmother lived to 105 and was extremely healthy and vibrant to the end she had never taken any medication except aspirin once in a awhile. Grandmaks memory was so good she could tell me the mailman’s name when she was 5. She had a wry sense of humor and insisted I had to serve her dessert before she left the dinner table.
They, and my mom will too, live until the very end.
The idea of just checking out of life for no real reason means that they miss the point of life. It’s to experience the highs and the lows and fully experience both while giving of yourself to others.
Suicide (and thats what it is) is a selfish thing derived from emotional pain and disconnect from other human beings. It’s as if you feel valueless. As a society we do not do enough to help those in such deep pain.
Oregon has a “right to die” law. The system requires medical (physical) and mental health assessments. Once cleared, you are instructed and advised on the
Precisely. There are guardrails in place. Where there aren't there will be abuses and extremes. I guess we have to go there to realize that we shouldn't have gone there. Thanks Sharon. I come from long-lived female relatives as well. Barring something stupid on my part- always possible- there's a good chance I'll do well for a good long time.
My two cents, at last! I'd like to begin with a quote: "Before I was born, I never had a bad day." Doug Stanhope. "Life," as they say, "isn't for everyone." I am one of those everyones. I am not a fan of life. I wasn't consulted on being here. I had no choice in the matter. I resent this. My life, overall, has been bereft of joy, one in which I have been locked in survival mode. I have taken all the meds, had all the therapies, including, but not limited to ECT. Nothing much worked.
I am an anti-fatalism who believes that the human race is a failed evolutionary mistake and the sooner we go extinct the better. We are a deeply defective species that mostly suffers. For 90(+)% of the population doomed to endless poverty, mental illness, and general depravity, through no error on their part, other the curse of being born. Except for a very lucky few, life is a burden not a blessing. I think it is with great hubris and deformed genetic hardwiring that we perpetuate this mess called humanity.
My brother suffered from a variety of mental health conditions that rendered his life a living hell. Because self-deletion is much harder than many believe, he died a horrifying death from and overdose of his, ironically, antidepressants, wrapped around a toilet--hardly the dignified end he deserved. He was a wonderful man saddled with a burden he grew increasingly weary of carrying. He didn't get the help he needed because it didn't and doesn't exist. This is one story among millions.
I've made multiple suicide attempts, both torturous and unsuccessful. I've come close to drinking myself to death many times. I would never have chosen this life. Again, I had no choice. While I understand the myriad concerns surrounding the topic of assisted suicided, we need to be honest about what we are talking about and not peripheral cases, the exceptions. For a wide swath of humanity life is unbearable. Ignoring, the economic and social issues many face, let's focus instead on the most salient fact: mental illness IS a medical condition and should be granted the same accordance as any other medical condition. Sadly, it isn't. For many, mental illness is a never-ending hell. Perhaps the only thing sadder than suicide, is living without any hope, counting the days until death. Yes. Circumstances can change. They sometimes do. However, I think it's infantilizing and usually the prevue of the non-suffering who bridle at the idea that many would prefer death to the life of suffering to which they have been consigned. I understand the wish that the mental health system will improve, finally meeting the needs of the suffering. It won't. That is a pipe dream that perpetuates boots-on-the-ground suffering. The mental health system is broken--I worked in it for decades-- if for no other reason that no one cares about the mentally ill. They have no voice, no power, and are no political threat to the status quo. There is no will. And, the money is in the treatment NOT the cure. We will look back on current treatments in sheer horror should the earth survive long enough to do so. Of course, there should be rigid protocols so that someone "having a bad day" can't walk in and end it all. That is, counseling, waiting periods, age limits, etc, etc. Ultimately, I defend, ahem, to the death the right for anyone to choose suicide. The alternative is even more horrifying. I understand the history behind your concerns, eugenics and worse. However, sometimes the kindest thing to permit is the uncomfortable.
Thanks, Julia. Will look into the book. I've not been all that concerned about after, more so about now, after will take care of itself. That said, I listened to a podcast yesterday on the road from "Ear Hustle" and it was a fascinating visit to Hospice in a prison. The patients know they are dying and I found the conversations riveting. The interviewer showed great compassion and an honest curiosity with her questions.
I can imagine how hard this was to write. But it blazes with clarifying flame.
Thank you. Sometimes I do get my dander up.
Oops, see above… you are given medication to end your life. Oregon reports that most people never use the pill. It’s the ability to feel in control of your life.
I think that balancing the choice, and given the choice, many of us choose life. The people who leap off the bridge and seconds later realize SHIT, those who are fortunate enough to survive the fall have a very different view about ending things.
I have so much to say, I'll remain silent. I haven't given up on life, just humans. Great piece as always.
I was literally about to leave the same response as you. So much to say that I can't really say it!
I suggest your own article. The way I see it Kristi, you're going to touch a lot of people when you do.
Maybe someday. I wouldn't have a clue where to start on an article like that!
Fire away, Chaos. I thought of you when I wrote this. We are all of us in process, and transformation by fire sucks the big one. But by god we can do this.
That's kind of you to think of me. Let me process this a bit more and I'll happily throw my hat in the ring.
I'm fully aware that some of what I write and how I write it can bring up some pretty important shit (for me, too). Take your time. I'm listening.
I'm "still collating." (See ALIEN.) I haven't forgotten you--I think as an autistic person (and someone who has lost someone I adored to suicide and has attempted suicide MANY times) it will take me longer to process my thoughts/feelings. (And, I feel so very much about this brave piece.) This is such an important topic that I don't want to half-ass it--it deserves my respect and full attention. And, (this is something I am working on) despite my pull-no-punches style on my SS page, I want to approach this incredibly sensitive topic respectfully--and, I fear that what I have to say will be attacked. So, kid gloves, as they say.
Bottom line, our takes are our takes, and they have validity, barring claims the earth is flat and the election was stolen, that is. Fire away.
I will. Oh, I will!!
I’ve always had a “you get to decide for yourself as it’s your life” type of mindset, this gave me so much to consider. I love a piece that challenges my beliefs…especially since I feel like I may be embarking on the best period of my life. I wouldn’t have believed that a year ago. Go Julia!!!
Thank you so much, Eileen. Life is all about perspectives. Change how we see, change how we live. So true.
Write on! Yes, right on too! Here's my response, and contribution:
https://garygruber.substack.com/p/life-death-and-in-between-06c
Thanks Gary. I did read it. I strongly recommend reading "AFTER," a book about fifty years of research of near death experiences. I found it deeply moving and hopeful.
I am so with you on this. I’m almost 70 but that’s young for the women in my family. My Mom who lives with me is 90 and my Granny lived an active life to 96. My other Grandmother lived to 105 and was extremely healthy and vibrant to the end she had never taken any medication except aspirin once in a awhile. Grandmaks memory was so good she could tell me the mailman’s name when she was 5. She had a wry sense of humor and insisted I had to serve her dessert before she left the dinner table.
They, and my mom will too, live until the very end.
The idea of just checking out of life for no real reason means that they miss the point of life. It’s to experience the highs and the lows and fully experience both while giving of yourself to others.
Suicide (and thats what it is) is a selfish thing derived from emotional pain and disconnect from other human beings. It’s as if you feel valueless. As a society we do not do enough to help those in such deep pain.
Oregon has a “right to die” law. The system requires medical (physical) and mental health assessments. Once cleared, you are instructed and advised on the
Precisely. There are guardrails in place. Where there aren't there will be abuses and extremes. I guess we have to go there to realize that we shouldn't have gone there. Thanks Sharon. I come from long-lived female relatives as well. Barring something stupid on my part- always possible- there's a good chance I'll do well for a good long time.
My two cents, at last! I'd like to begin with a quote: "Before I was born, I never had a bad day." Doug Stanhope. "Life," as they say, "isn't for everyone." I am one of those everyones. I am not a fan of life. I wasn't consulted on being here. I had no choice in the matter. I resent this. My life, overall, has been bereft of joy, one in which I have been locked in survival mode. I have taken all the meds, had all the therapies, including, but not limited to ECT. Nothing much worked.
I am an anti-fatalism who believes that the human race is a failed evolutionary mistake and the sooner we go extinct the better. We are a deeply defective species that mostly suffers. For 90(+)% of the population doomed to endless poverty, mental illness, and general depravity, through no error on their part, other the curse of being born. Except for a very lucky few, life is a burden not a blessing. I think it is with great hubris and deformed genetic hardwiring that we perpetuate this mess called humanity.
My brother suffered from a variety of mental health conditions that rendered his life a living hell. Because self-deletion is much harder than many believe, he died a horrifying death from and overdose of his, ironically, antidepressants, wrapped around a toilet--hardly the dignified end he deserved. He was a wonderful man saddled with a burden he grew increasingly weary of carrying. He didn't get the help he needed because it didn't and doesn't exist. This is one story among millions.
I've made multiple suicide attempts, both torturous and unsuccessful. I've come close to drinking myself to death many times. I would never have chosen this life. Again, I had no choice. While I understand the myriad concerns surrounding the topic of assisted suicided, we need to be honest about what we are talking about and not peripheral cases, the exceptions. For a wide swath of humanity life is unbearable. Ignoring, the economic and social issues many face, let's focus instead on the most salient fact: mental illness IS a medical condition and should be granted the same accordance as any other medical condition. Sadly, it isn't. For many, mental illness is a never-ending hell. Perhaps the only thing sadder than suicide, is living without any hope, counting the days until death. Yes. Circumstances can change. They sometimes do. However, I think it's infantilizing and usually the prevue of the non-suffering who bridle at the idea that many would prefer death to the life of suffering to which they have been consigned. I understand the wish that the mental health system will improve, finally meeting the needs of the suffering. It won't. That is a pipe dream that perpetuates boots-on-the-ground suffering. The mental health system is broken--I worked in it for decades-- if for no other reason that no one cares about the mentally ill. They have no voice, no power, and are no political threat to the status quo. There is no will. And, the money is in the treatment NOT the cure. We will look back on current treatments in sheer horror should the earth survive long enough to do so. Of course, there should be rigid protocols so that someone "having a bad day" can't walk in and end it all. That is, counseling, waiting periods, age limits, etc, etc. Ultimately, I defend, ahem, to the death the right for anyone to choose suicide. The alternative is even more horrifying. I understand the history behind your concerns, eugenics and worse. However, sometimes the kindest thing to permit is the uncomfortable.
Thanks, Julia. Will look into the book. I've not been all that concerned about after, more so about now, after will take care of itself. That said, I listened to a podcast yesterday on the road from "Ear Hustle" and it was a fascinating visit to Hospice in a prison. The patients know they are dying and I found the conversations riveting. The interviewer showed great compassion and an honest curiosity with her questions.