So many examples like this seen in my years as an expat in Asia. The lack of empathy and the sheer entitlement were cringeworthy. Often displayed when bargaining over a few cents on a purchase. And then people wonder why there’s a backlash. Good story. Good reminder.
I appreciate your point of view, Julia, and having lived and studied in Europe while I was in college, have interacted with and developed friendships with many people of many different cultures, languages and ethnicities. Americans would be very wise to adhere to the old adage: when in Rome, do as the Romans do. Which, sadly, very few did even in the fairly well-behaved 1970s, when I was there. But consider: in the 1970s Americans had not accumulated the very poor reputation that certain members of our current government have been studiously curating over the past couple of decades or so. Thus, it is even more important that Americans try hard not be Ugly. Your well-written article illustrates this brilliantly.
The only thing that kind of bothered me in your article is the use of the name "Karen" as a stand-in for an obnoxious, overbearing, caustic person, which I presume was male since he is referred to throughout as "he." I have a dear sister-in-law with that name, and it hurts her deeply every time she hears her name used as an insult. And "Karen" was apparently used to refer to an obnoxious, overbearing, caustic American man. I truly wish we could get to the point that we could discard personal names and gender when describing irritating people. It would be my fondest wish that references to the poor behavior of privileged, self-centered people could be made without injuring persons fully innocent of that behavior.
Good point-it’s become common usage, and for want of an easier shortcut, that’s what I used. I wish I had an easier word. Let me think about it and if one comes to mind I’ll edit. I appreciate the respectful observation.
You are very kind, Julia. I am always reticent about commenting, but if not now? When will we address it? I loved your story; I ran into a lot of folks like the person you write about when I was abroad. It always gave me "peak cringe."
@sixmorecharacters: Thank you very much for your comment. My real name is Karen. It makes me both mad and sad that it has been turned into a derogatory word. I use the name Kai online because I get taken more seriously than Karen. Also no negative comments on my character.
Kai -- I totally hear you. My name is pronounced "Car- In" -- at least twice I've been the butt of comedians who joke that I'm really "Just a Karen." I hate that our name (which means 'pure') has come to have such a negative connotation.
Hi Karen! I hope you don't mind my using your real name. My dear sis-in-law is named Karen; she and my sweet elder brother were thinking of marrying when they graduated from high school (back in the 60s, believe it or not), but Karen's dad objected because my brother was younger than she. When my dear dad passed away a few years ago my brother visited our extended family and mom and dad's friends back home in Kansas and guess who he met again? Karen was newly widowed, her father had passed away long ago, and my brother had divorced years ago as well. It was as though nothing had come between them. I find it so unfair to very nice people when nicknames such as you-know-what become shorthand for people with tiresome personal traits. Ditto with free use of feminized insults (you know, c*nt and b*tch and others) to describe really hateful, mean, cowardly, unpleasant men. I am always reticent about saying anything, and have often been dressed down for it, but it is my fervent hope that I will live long enough to see unfair, hurtful, insulting names like these become as socially unacceptable as others that used to be widely used. I believe that it can be changed--if everyone points it out and refuses to just "deal with it." I hope we may chat again, Karen! My regards to you.
Hi Jane! The name "Karen" began being used to describe usually middle-class white women who were considered pushy and demanding and who caused scenes in usually retail environments. My understanding is that it really became trendy around 2017 or 2018 among younger people, but I became aware of it in 2020 or so (I'm in my 70s and not exactly a pop culture butterfly). For a time, other names were also used, depending on the context of the "problem person" being referred to, such as "Barbecue Becky," "Cornerstore Caroline," and "Permit Patty." Some linguists connect "Karen" stereotypes to the older "soccer mom" stereotype of a helicopter mom with her powerful SUV and loud, pushy, entitled behaviors cowing everyone around her. Increasingly--but of course, since most of the really obnoxious people lately have been male--"Karen" is being used with a particularly bitter tone to refer to people like Tom Cotton, Jim Jordan, JD Vance, Donald Trump, or in the subject story, an obnoxious, tight-fisted American expat man living in Ecuador who picked a fight with a bus driver over a $0.15 discount on bus fare that he felt he deserved but that the driver objected to. To me, this habit is particularly hurtful to entirely innocent people named Karen who absolutely do not deserve to be maligned like that. My other pet peeve is the feminization of insults directed at men, such as c*nt, b*tch and others. I have tried to not say anything to others more or less all my life, even though I have heard women comment bitterly about it, but with the availability of social media, the tendency of modern speakers to not really care how vulgar and hurtful their use of these words is, and the atrocious malignant misogyny rampant at this time, I am at the point where I am much more likely to say something. I try to point out how hurtful these insults are, especially to girls and women, who are not even the ones being addressed or commented on. It is a very lonely crusade, unfortunately, and I frequently receive really violent argument and trolling, but at 72 I am absolutely determined to try to persuade everyone I can that using words like these and women's actual proper names to insult selfish, dunderheaded people is harmful to women and girls in general and to Karens, specifically. Here is the link to the Wikipedia article about the "Karen" insult, Jane: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_(slang)
My Dad frequently acted like this in the US. This embarrassed my brothers and I a lot. He moved to Germany, and then the Philippines to work for the Department of Defense. Always bragging about how far the American dollar would go.
In all those years overseas, he made one American friend and one Czech friend. Both of them were also very entitled and not generous.
It's absolutely not dignified or worth it to quibble over 30¢. It also leaves you with like-minded friends. Sad.
Sometimes I just want to shake people for their lack of awareness.
I have been laughed at for several of the things I do. I always drive the speed limit when going through a small town. This is Texas after all and lots and lots of people carry guns, so there's that, but in this case it doesn't matter. The fact that the locals are flying around is neither here nor there. I'm a guest and in that position, I will follow the speed limits. Of course, I tend to do that anyway but in my town I will pick and choose where I exceed the speed limit.
Back 50 years ago I spent a summer in Flagstaff, AZ with my husband who was doing fieldwork for his PhD. We were invited by a group of anthropologists to visit one of the Pueblos for a ceremonial dance. We were warned that this was a traditional religious celebration and our presence would not necessarily be welcomed so we needed to be quiet and respectful. I was ready to pass on the visit but they pulled me along. The music was amazing, the dances were lively and interesting and I didn't understand much of anything but enjoyed it. The smells were also amazing and I'm sure the Pueblo feasted that night. The group of us crept in silently and stood out of the way next to wall and watched in complete joy. Then we silently walked back to our cars and went back to Flagstaff. That was my first experience with being completely embarrassed by people just like me who were behaving badly. They were acting entitled and privileged although those were not terms we used back then. They were loud, insulting, obnoxious, and intrusive. I was horrified. No wonder the Pueblo people weren't interested in having white people there during their dances.
So act like a damned guest! It doesn't matter that you have been there for 10 years and speak the language. You are still a guest. Act like it. And maybe do a better job of reading the room.
I’ve seen Australian men do the same thing in Africa. Arrogance among insecure White folks is widespread and it doesn’t have boundaries. Small dicks being waved around, and enbabled by their women. Yes, it’s embarrassing.
“ we expect immigrants to be respectful of our laws and understand how they are perceived here, fairly or unfairly. Same goes for us.” Too true. I’m in total agreement with you here Julia. It’s embarrassing when someone from the Uk or USA or elsewhere moves to another country and doesn’t even bother to learn the language, let alone be willing to fit into the culture. Grrr!
I am certainly not going to say I am glad that man got injured, but in a world where all kinds of terrible things are happening because of the actions of the U.S. I will say that I'm not going to spare this man a thought.
That's my take, too, Michael. Like you guys, I've been all over the world for extended periods, mostly in very poor countries. The lack of awareness, the inability to read the room much less the world is unbelievable.
Great post...and spot on! I live here in Cuenca and would offer this is more a rare reaction from a gringo...and hoping it will remain that way. One of the many things I enjoy living here (versus USA where I originate) is the decency in cultural norms we have here. Cuencanos (and most Ecuadorians) are a kind, gentle folk for the most part...and do not exhibit (nor understand) lack of courtesy/ rude behaviour. As such, they are conflict adverse and prefer civility & courtesy. As an expat, I fear that the lack of understanding/empathy of this culture - and the possibility of bringing American culture of patience/lack of civil behaviour to this land - may become more frequent. That said, I do not understand the behaviour of picking a fight over something so inconsequential...and look what happened? This outcome was simply not necessary...and while it is regrettable this gringo was injured...what in the world was he thinking!??
To all my readers, Vicki is an expert mover of those who wish to become expats in Ecuador. If anyone wants to learn about what's involved, this is the person to ask.
The way I see it, greed has become a sport. Some expats like to test how much they can get away with a bargain, and if they manage, they'd keep haggling or in this case, demanding what's "fair"! Well, I don't need to put out the argument against this cruel sport as you've laid it out beautifully.
I also agree that int the Time of Trump, international sentiments toward Americans in general are likely to turn sour, if not so already.
Personally I have a pet peeve about rich people who loves "value" and complain when something is "too expensive" when they believe they could've paid a lot less. "Too expensive" compared with what? Definitely not in the context of the amount of money in their bank. But it doesn't matter. Getting a bargain is a sport. That's why billionaires love getting workers at a bargain basement price. I'd better stop or else my blood pressure will go up and I won't be able to sleep 😅
Four days into an 8-month trek around South America, my husband and I were robbed of half our stuff on a bus from Quito to Cuenca in Ecuador. The police were polite but unhelpful with an attitude that suggested the people who had stolen our stuff needed it more than we did. We learned early on to take responsibility for our naivete and lack of vigilance and once we did, our experiences greatly improved. As Americans, we seem to possess a sense of self-righteousness and litigiousness: "Damn it, we want justice!" that doesn't translate well around the rest of the world. I'm surprised that after living in Ecuador for ten years, the man was still so naive.
So many examples like this seen in my years as an expat in Asia. The lack of empathy and the sheer entitlement were cringeworthy. Often displayed when bargaining over a few cents on a purchase. And then people wonder why there’s a backlash. Good story. Good reminder.
Thanks Lou.
I appreciate your point of view, Julia, and having lived and studied in Europe while I was in college, have interacted with and developed friendships with many people of many different cultures, languages and ethnicities. Americans would be very wise to adhere to the old adage: when in Rome, do as the Romans do. Which, sadly, very few did even in the fairly well-behaved 1970s, when I was there. But consider: in the 1970s Americans had not accumulated the very poor reputation that certain members of our current government have been studiously curating over the past couple of decades or so. Thus, it is even more important that Americans try hard not be Ugly. Your well-written article illustrates this brilliantly.
The only thing that kind of bothered me in your article is the use of the name "Karen" as a stand-in for an obnoxious, overbearing, caustic person, which I presume was male since he is referred to throughout as "he." I have a dear sister-in-law with that name, and it hurts her deeply every time she hears her name used as an insult. And "Karen" was apparently used to refer to an obnoxious, overbearing, caustic American man. I truly wish we could get to the point that we could discard personal names and gender when describing irritating people. It would be my fondest wish that references to the poor behavior of privileged, self-centered people could be made without injuring persons fully innocent of that behavior.
Good point-it’s become common usage, and for want of an easier shortcut, that’s what I used. I wish I had an easier word. Let me think about it and if one comes to mind I’ll edit. I appreciate the respectful observation.
You are very kind, Julia. I am always reticent about commenting, but if not now? When will we address it? I loved your story; I ran into a lot of folks like the person you write about when I was abroad. It always gave me "peak cringe."
@sixmorecharacters: Thank you very much for your comment. My real name is Karen. It makes me both mad and sad that it has been turned into a derogatory word. I use the name Kai online because I get taken more seriously than Karen. Also no negative comments on my character.
to both of you, I edited the story with thanks again to sixmorecharacters for the callout.
Thanks for hearing Kai, Julia. See my comment above.
Kai -- I totally hear you. My name is pronounced "Car- In" -- at least twice I've been the butt of comedians who joke that I'm really "Just a Karen." I hate that our name (which means 'pure') has come to have such a negative connotation.
Hi Karen! I hope you don't mind my using your real name. My dear sis-in-law is named Karen; she and my sweet elder brother were thinking of marrying when they graduated from high school (back in the 60s, believe it or not), but Karen's dad objected because my brother was younger than she. When my dear dad passed away a few years ago my brother visited our extended family and mom and dad's friends back home in Kansas and guess who he met again? Karen was newly widowed, her father had passed away long ago, and my brother had divorced years ago as well. It was as though nothing had come between them. I find it so unfair to very nice people when nicknames such as you-know-what become shorthand for people with tiresome personal traits. Ditto with free use of feminized insults (you know, c*nt and b*tch and others) to describe really hateful, mean, cowardly, unpleasant men. I am always reticent about saying anything, and have often been dressed down for it, but it is my fervent hope that I will live long enough to see unfair, hurtful, insulting names like these become as socially unacceptable as others that used to be widely used. I believe that it can be changed--if everyone points it out and refuses to just "deal with it." I hope we may chat again, Karen! My regards to you.
I’ve never heard the word ‘Karen’ before used for anything other than a female name.
Hi Jane! The name "Karen" began being used to describe usually middle-class white women who were considered pushy and demanding and who caused scenes in usually retail environments. My understanding is that it really became trendy around 2017 or 2018 among younger people, but I became aware of it in 2020 or so (I'm in my 70s and not exactly a pop culture butterfly). For a time, other names were also used, depending on the context of the "problem person" being referred to, such as "Barbecue Becky," "Cornerstore Caroline," and "Permit Patty." Some linguists connect "Karen" stereotypes to the older "soccer mom" stereotype of a helicopter mom with her powerful SUV and loud, pushy, entitled behaviors cowing everyone around her. Increasingly--but of course, since most of the really obnoxious people lately have been male--"Karen" is being used with a particularly bitter tone to refer to people like Tom Cotton, Jim Jordan, JD Vance, Donald Trump, or in the subject story, an obnoxious, tight-fisted American expat man living in Ecuador who picked a fight with a bus driver over a $0.15 discount on bus fare that he felt he deserved but that the driver objected to. To me, this habit is particularly hurtful to entirely innocent people named Karen who absolutely do not deserve to be maligned like that. My other pet peeve is the feminization of insults directed at men, such as c*nt, b*tch and others. I have tried to not say anything to others more or less all my life, even though I have heard women comment bitterly about it, but with the availability of social media, the tendency of modern speakers to not really care how vulgar and hurtful their use of these words is, and the atrocious malignant misogyny rampant at this time, I am at the point where I am much more likely to say something. I try to point out how hurtful these insults are, especially to girls and women, who are not even the ones being addressed or commented on. It is a very lonely crusade, unfortunately, and I frequently receive really violent argument and trolling, but at 72 I am absolutely determined to try to persuade everyone I can that using words like these and women's actual proper names to insult selfish, dunderheaded people is harmful to women and girls in general and to Karens, specifically. Here is the link to the Wikipedia article about the "Karen" insult, Jane: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_(slang)
Changed, and thank you.
And subscribed! I love your voice and attitude, Julia!
thank you and I will correct my pronouns.
It really wasn’t necessary, Julia. But thank you!
My Dad frequently acted like this in the US. This embarrassed my brothers and I a lot. He moved to Germany, and then the Philippines to work for the Department of Defense. Always bragging about how far the American dollar would go.
In all those years overseas, he made one American friend and one Czech friend. Both of them were also very entitled and not generous.
It's absolutely not dignified or worth it to quibble over 30¢. It also leaves you with like-minded friends. Sad.
Kai, all too common in the world. Which is why, increasingly, I am happier in countries where there are fewer such people.
Sometimes I just want to shake people for their lack of awareness.
I have been laughed at for several of the things I do. I always drive the speed limit when going through a small town. This is Texas after all and lots and lots of people carry guns, so there's that, but in this case it doesn't matter. The fact that the locals are flying around is neither here nor there. I'm a guest and in that position, I will follow the speed limits. Of course, I tend to do that anyway but in my town I will pick and choose where I exceed the speed limit.
Back 50 years ago I spent a summer in Flagstaff, AZ with my husband who was doing fieldwork for his PhD. We were invited by a group of anthropologists to visit one of the Pueblos for a ceremonial dance. We were warned that this was a traditional religious celebration and our presence would not necessarily be welcomed so we needed to be quiet and respectful. I was ready to pass on the visit but they pulled me along. The music was amazing, the dances were lively and interesting and I didn't understand much of anything but enjoyed it. The smells were also amazing and I'm sure the Pueblo feasted that night. The group of us crept in silently and stood out of the way next to wall and watched in complete joy. Then we silently walked back to our cars and went back to Flagstaff. That was my first experience with being completely embarrassed by people just like me who were behaving badly. They were acting entitled and privileged although those were not terms we used back then. They were loud, insulting, obnoxious, and intrusive. I was horrified. No wonder the Pueblo people weren't interested in having white people there during their dances.
So act like a damned guest! It doesn't matter that you have been there for 10 years and speak the language. You are still a guest. Act like it. And maybe do a better job of reading the room.
I’ve seen Australian men do the same thing in Africa. Arrogance among insecure White folks is widespread and it doesn’t have boundaries. Small dicks being waved around, and enbabled by their women. Yes, it’s embarrassing.
“ we expect immigrants to be respectful of our laws and understand how they are perceived here, fairly or unfairly. Same goes for us.” Too true. I’m in total agreement with you here Julia. It’s embarrassing when someone from the Uk or USA or elsewhere moves to another country and doesn’t even bother to learn the language, let alone be willing to fit into the culture. Grrr!
I am certainly not going to say I am glad that man got injured, but in a world where all kinds of terrible things are happening because of the actions of the U.S. I will say that I'm not going to spare this man a thought.
That's my take, too, Michael. Like you guys, I've been all over the world for extended periods, mostly in very poor countries. The lack of awareness, the inability to read the room much less the world is unbelievable.
Great post...and spot on! I live here in Cuenca and would offer this is more a rare reaction from a gringo...and hoping it will remain that way. One of the many things I enjoy living here (versus USA where I originate) is the decency in cultural norms we have here. Cuencanos (and most Ecuadorians) are a kind, gentle folk for the most part...and do not exhibit (nor understand) lack of courtesy/ rude behaviour. As such, they are conflict adverse and prefer civility & courtesy. As an expat, I fear that the lack of understanding/empathy of this culture - and the possibility of bringing American culture of patience/lack of civil behaviour to this land - may become more frequent. That said, I do not understand the behaviour of picking a fight over something so inconsequential...and look what happened? This outcome was simply not necessary...and while it is regrettable this gringo was injured...what in the world was he thinking!??
To all my readers, Vicki is an expert mover of those who wish to become expats in Ecuador. If anyone wants to learn about what's involved, this is the person to ask.
Great story and important lesson of entitlement!
The way I see it, greed has become a sport. Some expats like to test how much they can get away with a bargain, and if they manage, they'd keep haggling or in this case, demanding what's "fair"! Well, I don't need to put out the argument against this cruel sport as you've laid it out beautifully.
I also agree that int the Time of Trump, international sentiments toward Americans in general are likely to turn sour, if not so already.
Personally I have a pet peeve about rich people who loves "value" and complain when something is "too expensive" when they believe they could've paid a lot less. "Too expensive" compared with what? Definitely not in the context of the amount of money in their bank. But it doesn't matter. Getting a bargain is a sport. That's why billionaires love getting workers at a bargain basement price. I'd better stop or else my blood pressure will go up and I won't be able to sleep 😅
I’ve seen it all over, Lily.
😔
Great post Julia!
Four days into an 8-month trek around South America, my husband and I were robbed of half our stuff on a bus from Quito to Cuenca in Ecuador. The police were polite but unhelpful with an attitude that suggested the people who had stolen our stuff needed it more than we did. We learned early on to take responsibility for our naivete and lack of vigilance and once we did, our experiences greatly improved. As Americans, we seem to possess a sense of self-righteousness and litigiousness: "Damn it, we want justice!" that doesn't translate well around the rest of the world. I'm surprised that after living in Ecuador for ten years, the man was still so naive.