Excellent essay. I felt a strong pang in my core while reading it. You touched on so many truths about human relationships and conflicts. I especially resonate with the part about putting others on the pedestal (I had a tendency to seek out mother and father figures in my romantic relationships and friendships, as well as my spiritual life). The part about not everyone is worthy of your trust also rings true. The lesson I learned from the heartaches and thousand papercuts I sustained in such relationships is that I came to see my own value and I stepped on the road to come home to myself.
We are all on that journey home, Louisa. And we never get there, for there is no there, just the next pad we step on and the next. John Harding actually responded to you, if you can't find his comment in the thread let me know and I'll track it down. I'm right in the middle of practicing a really important speech so need to take a break from Substack!
Thank you! My first name in Chinese actually means "road." So I've been on that road all along :-) I can't find John Harding's reply to my comment. Please help me track it down when you are free. Thanks!
On that note, allow me a quick segue to commenting on Louisa Wah’s question about “calling people out.” I have found it is important to remember that there is no static thing or a noun called relationship. It is a dynamic of sharing private insights with another. One person’s experience in relating is naturally different than the other’s in the same relationship dynamic. We each choose to engage in relationship for personal reasons and expectations.
Humans are “story-telling creatures.” There is a psychological term called “fantasy bond.” We tend to choose to partner with those who “fit” our personal fantasies reflecting subconscious callings. A lot of our frustrations in relationships is that others do not precisely conform to the fantasies we expect of them. How dare they?!
We can’t call out others, but can call out ourselves on the stories and fantasies we project onto others. Boundary setting, as I,previously mentioned, is an inside job. One has to break the outward fantasy bond and go deeply within to discover the feelings generating the fantasy. From that place of personal integrity you can share your personal feelings of how you are experiencing relating with another. One cannot work on preserving a “relationship”, but we are responsible for being as authentic as possible on our side of relating with others. Relationships have sacred purpose, but only if you are conscious of your true desires for intimacy with others in the present moment. Pass the popcorn and let the show begin…
Ok thank you for asking. I appreciate it. I just found the piece and very happy for you to update with my details. That would be great. Thank you Julia! And thank you for considering my thoughts on this topic🙏🏻
"Such training can send tender souls into the world forever in search of the “good mommy/daddy,” forever worshiping parental figures in ways they don’t deserve to be worshiped. My hand is way up here... So I put this person on a pedestal, which was unfair to us both."
Thank you for your soulful sharing of the perils of intimacy. As I age, I am learning to develop relationships at a peer level rather than the learned dynamic of the uneven power dynamic of an adult/guru and the child/acolyte. Of course, a lot of psychotherapy and grieving had to happen for this to evolve.
"Its never too late to have a happy childhood..."
Healthy boundary setting, I have found, requires that I know and respect the core of who I am. It is difficult to gracefully set boundaries when you don't know your own internal typography. Yes, I have "sore toes" that are still hyper-sensitive and demand special vigilance but I now know where these potholes are and can steer around them.
I am an aged adult and will make a muck of things if I attempt to place intimates on the "parent pedestal" and regress into personal impotency. At some deep subconscious level I am craving the "I - Thou" sacred dynamic that Martin Buber described. Sadly I find that too few of us elders have the skills of modeling healthy "adulting" for younger generations. We now all live in worlds of augmented "reality" where we become detached from our Core and enmeshed in and entranced with our avatar images. Perhaps the acknowledgment of the death of a relationship is an invitation to renew our personal relationship with our authentic Self so we don't feel the need to project our needs onto others.
Your words gave me a lot to ponder and to grieve. Yes, we need to honor our flawed humanity and to "parent" ourselves so we don't have to constantly recreate the parent-child relationship to feel intimacy and to feel lovable.
I can totally relate. Remorse IS born of empathy. I've struggled with a lifelong friend for some time, who is occasionally barbed in comment and unapologetic when cancelling plans. For a while now Ive brooded, hurt. My husband says that friendships go through rough patches, but I know this person is not accustomed to introspection, and probably has no idea how upset I am. Yes I should've pulled her up in the past, I would've anyone else, but there's that pedestal... I'm close to drawing a line in the sand, I know I deserve better, but it doesn't stop me feeling terribly sad.
Sharon, I'd like to quote you on this. I'm probably going to do an article which collects the responses to this, which seems to have really touched something deep in many of us. Kindly let me know if I have your permission.
This resonates deeply. Someone I had known for 40-odd years broke off because… I don’t really know since they didn’t bother to tell me. Although, I’ve felt it coming… snide remarks, telling me off re decisions not even involving them, being almost aggressive. I wrote about the pretend, not a friend.
I have cut off ties with several people having a negative influence on my life, I do not want to tip-toe around other people’s sensitivities anymore while they see fit to totally disregard my feelings.
It comes as a relief to shake off that burden as I am now better able to focus on those close to me… and on my own well being.
I'd like to quote you on this, Joyce. This resonates deeply with me and I'll bet it will with others, please let me know. This article seems to have struck a responsive chord with many and I want to respond to that. Thanks.
This is always such a sensitive topic because I'd bet hard money that EVERYONE reading it can name that person in their lives in an instant. Lord knows I've wanted to OUT certain people just to make me feel better but what good does it do? Some people were just born to cause hurt and test us to see how resilient we can be.
boy howdy truth, Kristi. We can all name them. I'm sure I'd come up on a few lists myself. That said what got me was how hard I had worked to keep this masked, but clearly this person knew perfectly well they had behaved badly....
Julia, I am honored and gobsmacked (in the nicest sense of that non-word) to have prompted your piece. Just like your previous words to me, it does me good to read what you say. I am committing herewith to better blundering :-)
I think, given my work, you know my take on this. Great piece. Sadly, I've been hurt so repeatedly and systematically, that I am rethinking my relationship to humans in general. Beware the "very spiritual." They, in my experience, are the worst offenders. They mask their toxic brokenness behind a cloak of feigned sincerity, earnestness, and incense. Run. I wanted to let you know, that you continue to impress me with your thoughtful writing. As an aging person, so much of what you write resonates with me. So, thank you.
Absolutely. All I ask is that you credit me. :) Fair? And, I still owe you a response on your piece about suicide/death. I have been writing, as you must have noticed, like a maniac--you kinda to that too! I'm publishing another piece today (fingers-crossed) and then should have minute to respond.
"Shallow understanding from people of goodwill is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill-will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.” MARTIN LUTHER KING, JR
I have been thinking a lot about this topic - of why people can have so many opinions about me/attack try to bring me down in different ways. It has happened a lot in my life and I guess correlates with developing a boundaries and an opinion.
I really like this sentence “Sometimes people are not worthy of our trust and the high regard in which we hold them. Therein lies the opportunity to hold our own hearts in higher regard, so that we don’t trade off our sacred selves for what others offer us. “
Catriona, that has to be one of the hardest lessons I am still learning. I am not there yet but I am making progress. Thanks so much for the thoughtful response!
Excellent essay. I felt a strong pang in my core while reading it. You touched on so many truths about human relationships and conflicts. I especially resonate with the part about putting others on the pedestal (I had a tendency to seek out mother and father figures in my romantic relationships and friendships, as well as my spiritual life). The part about not everyone is worthy of your trust also rings true. The lesson I learned from the heartaches and thousand papercuts I sustained in such relationships is that I came to see my own value and I stepped on the road to come home to myself.
We are all on that journey home, Louisa. And we never get there, for there is no there, just the next pad we step on and the next. John Harding actually responded to you, if you can't find his comment in the thread let me know and I'll track it down. I'm right in the middle of practicing a really important speech so need to take a break from Substack!
Thank you! My first name in Chinese actually means "road." So I've been on that road all along :-) I can't find John Harding's reply to my comment. Please help me track it down when you are free. Thanks!
Here you go:
On that note, allow me a quick segue to commenting on Louisa Wah’s question about “calling people out.” I have found it is important to remember that there is no static thing or a noun called relationship. It is a dynamic of sharing private insights with another. One person’s experience in relating is naturally different than the other’s in the same relationship dynamic. We each choose to engage in relationship for personal reasons and expectations.
Humans are “story-telling creatures.” There is a psychological term called “fantasy bond.” We tend to choose to partner with those who “fit” our personal fantasies reflecting subconscious callings. A lot of our frustrations in relationships is that others do not precisely conform to the fantasies we expect of them. How dare they?!
We can’t call out others, but can call out ourselves on the stories and fantasies we project onto others. Boundary setting, as I,previously mentioned, is an inside job. One has to break the outward fantasy bond and go deeply within to discover the feelings generating the fantasy. From that place of personal integrity you can share your personal feelings of how you are experiencing relating with another. One cannot work on preserving a “relationship”, but we are responsible for being as authentic as possible on our side of relating with others. Relationships have sacred purpose, but only if you are conscious of your true desires for intimacy with others in the present moment. Pass the popcorn and let the show begin…
Thank you!
That gave me some ideas, too, but I have to get out of the house for a while. Cabin fever!
Hey Julia - if you are quoting me please do mention my name and link to me profile 🙏🏻 thank you
I did quote you and did NOT mention your name or link to you. You're good. I do my best to be super careful that way.
Ok thank you for asking. I appreciate it. I just found the piece and very happy for you to update with my details. That would be great. Thank you Julia! And thank you for considering my thoughts on this topic🙏🏻
You are most welcome!
Of course, that is what social media is all about… 🙏
"Such training can send tender souls into the world forever in search of the “good mommy/daddy,” forever worshiping parental figures in ways they don’t deserve to be worshiped. My hand is way up here... So I put this person on a pedestal, which was unfair to us both."
Thank you for your soulful sharing of the perils of intimacy. As I age, I am learning to develop relationships at a peer level rather than the learned dynamic of the uneven power dynamic of an adult/guru and the child/acolyte. Of course, a lot of psychotherapy and grieving had to happen for this to evolve.
"Its never too late to have a happy childhood..."
Healthy boundary setting, I have found, requires that I know and respect the core of who I am. It is difficult to gracefully set boundaries when you don't know your own internal typography. Yes, I have "sore toes" that are still hyper-sensitive and demand special vigilance but I now know where these potholes are and can steer around them.
I am an aged adult and will make a muck of things if I attempt to place intimates on the "parent pedestal" and regress into personal impotency. At some deep subconscious level I am craving the "I - Thou" sacred dynamic that Martin Buber described. Sadly I find that too few of us elders have the skills of modeling healthy "adulting" for younger generations. We now all live in worlds of augmented "reality" where we become detached from our Core and enmeshed in and entranced with our avatar images. Perhaps the acknowledgment of the death of a relationship is an invitation to renew our personal relationship with our authentic Self so we don't feel the need to project our needs onto others.
Your words gave me a lot to ponder and to grieve. Yes, we need to honor our flawed humanity and to "parent" ourselves so we don't have to constantly recreate the parent-child relationship to feel intimacy and to feel lovable.
I'd love to quote this, John, and give credit, kindly advise if that's all right.
I can totally relate. Remorse IS born of empathy. I've struggled with a lifelong friend for some time, who is occasionally barbed in comment and unapologetic when cancelling plans. For a while now Ive brooded, hurt. My husband says that friendships go through rough patches, but I know this person is not accustomed to introspection, and probably has no idea how upset I am. Yes I should've pulled her up in the past, I would've anyone else, but there's that pedestal... I'm close to drawing a line in the sand, I know I deserve better, but it doesn't stop me feeling terribly sad.
Sharon, I'd like to quote you on this. I'm probably going to do an article which collects the responses to this, which seems to have really touched something deep in many of us. Kindly let me know if I have your permission.
Hi Julia, if you’re ok with not using my surname when quoting, then yes by all means.
Happy to do that, Sharon. It's the heart of the message I want, and some folks don't want attribution, some do. That's why I ask. Thanks so much.
No problem
This resonates deeply. Someone I had known for 40-odd years broke off because… I don’t really know since they didn’t bother to tell me. Although, I’ve felt it coming… snide remarks, telling me off re decisions not even involving them, being almost aggressive. I wrote about the pretend, not a friend.
I have cut off ties with several people having a negative influence on my life, I do not want to tip-toe around other people’s sensitivities anymore while they see fit to totally disregard my feelings.
It comes as a relief to shake off that burden as I am now better able to focus on those close to me… and on my own well being.
Take care, Julia 💙🙏💫🌿
I'd like to quote you on this, Joyce. This resonates deeply with me and I'll bet it will with others, please let me know. This article seems to have struck a responsive chord with many and I want to respond to that. Thanks.
Oh please, Julia, go ahead…if it can bring any good, then at least the negative will have turned into positive.
This is always such a sensitive topic because I'd bet hard money that EVERYONE reading it can name that person in their lives in an instant. Lord knows I've wanted to OUT certain people just to make me feel better but what good does it do? Some people were just born to cause hurt and test us to see how resilient we can be.
boy howdy truth, Kristi. We can all name them. I'm sure I'd come up on a few lists myself. That said what got me was how hard I had worked to keep this masked, but clearly this person knew perfectly well they had behaved badly....
Human relationships are the most complicated thing I've ever done, hands down. Lately you can find me at the dog park lol.
If my doctor hadn't put me back into a boot and on a scooter, I'd be checking out rescues right now. Totally get it.
Julia, I am honored and gobsmacked (in the nicest sense of that non-word) to have prompted your piece. Just like your previous words to me, it does me good to read what you say. I am committing herewith to better blundering :-)
I think, given my work, you know my take on this. Great piece. Sadly, I've been hurt so repeatedly and systematically, that I am rethinking my relationship to humans in general. Beware the "very spiritual." They, in my experience, are the worst offenders. They mask their toxic brokenness behind a cloak of feigned sincerity, earnestness, and incense. Run. I wanted to let you know, that you continue to impress me with your thoughtful writing. As an aging person, so much of what you write resonates with me. So, thank you.
Chaos, may I use this in another article? The responses to this piece have hit home for me and for many. Let me know.
Absolutely. All I ask is that you credit me. :) Fair? And, I still owe you a response on your piece about suicide/death. I have been writing, as you must have noticed, like a maniac--you kinda to that too! I'm publishing another piece today (fingers-crossed) and then should have minute to respond.
Here's a quote you might like as it relates:
"Shallow understanding from people of goodwill is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill-will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.” MARTIN LUTHER KING, JR
Perfect!
I credit everyone I quote. No worries. Take your time!
Cool. I look forward to reading it.
I have been thinking a lot about this topic - of why people can have so many opinions about me/attack try to bring me down in different ways. It has happened a lot in my life and I guess correlates with developing a boundaries and an opinion.
I really like this sentence “Sometimes people are not worthy of our trust and the high regard in which we hold them. Therein lies the opportunity to hold our own hearts in higher regard, so that we don’t trade off our sacred selves for what others offer us. “
I'm quoting you in another story and will not attribute unless you give me permission.
Catriona, that has to be one of the hardest lessons I am still learning. I am not there yet but I am making progress. Thanks so much for the thoughtful response!